The "Know Your Enemy" Appreciation Thread

[franny]

We shall agree to disagree, I really liked it the first time I heard it.

[Embla Claymore]

I didn't have to put any effort in liking KYE... I really cannot see why it's considered a bad album. The only track that puzzles me is Miss Europa Disco Dancer, which is not bad per se, but totally unexpected and out of context (IMO).

As I mentioned in the 'what are you listening to' thread, I've just played it and it still sounds mighty good to me!

Although I love the Manics, I've never quite 'worshipped' them and never 'obsessed' over them (I'm in no way criticizing people who do so, it's just not what I do, for any band!) the fact that I basically like 99% of their songs without having to try is probably a good sign!

[tzb]

So Why So Sad
Let Robeson Sing
Wattsville Blues
Miss Europa Disco Dancer
Royal Correspondent
Freedom of Speech Won't Feed My Children

If these were the first songs I'd heard by the band, I'd never have bothered with them and no amount of convincing would have turned me back. These 6 songs are, for me, amongst their 10 worst tracks. All sound totally insincere, and pretty much all of them have utterly dreadful production to boot. Miss Europa genuinely gives me a headache, it's like coconut ice or something... sickly and just saccharine crap. They fail for me on every level.

That said Found That Soul, Dead Martyrs, His Last Painting and The Convalescent are some of my favourites. What a shame they couldn't have made that album, with the likes of BOTBN, Groundhog Days, Locust Valley and even TMATC on there. Those plus 4 of the the non-abysmal tracks on KYE would still be a great 12-track record:

Found That Soul
Ballad of the Bangkok Novotel
Intravenous Agnostic
My Guernica
Ocean Spray
Locust Valley
Epicentre
The Masses Against The Classes
Dead Martyrs
His Last Painting
Groundhog Days
The Convalescent

Oddly enough, I think that album would be closest to something like JFPL. Anyway I've said more than enough on this.

[Embla Claymore]

@tzb: I know it's OT, but may I ask you which album got you into the Manics? Just curious...!

[tzb]

I got into them around EMG but then hearing the singles from GT and THB are what inspired me to investigate further. I was a committed fan by TIMT (which I loved) at any rate, and by then THB was my favourite album

[Flint]

Amusingly, considering the last few posts, Know Your Enemy was the album that got me into the band. T'was love at first listen too.

Fantastic album, through and through. I love its long, schizophrenic, messy nature. The way it just jumps from place to place like a maniac, packing up so much energy wherever it relentlessly goes. Each song is like a brand new punch completely separated from its neighbouring moments. The pop moments are fantastic (So Why So Sad is so horridly underrated), the stylistic experiments are fantastic, the raw ramshackle rockers are great; would love for the band to return to the raw, acoustic-driven rockers like Epicentre, Ocean Spray and His Last Painting. Royal Correspondent's pretty much the only song I'm not as in love with but I wouldn't really drop that either because in the end it's a part of that messy, schizophrenic pile of songs that makes KYE so marvellous.

Plus Wattsville and Miss Europa are some of their best live songs. Bring them back! And in general that album is full of stunning songs that would be ace live but of course the band has to ignore it all. Daft sods.

[MSPlover]

The first time I didn't like the album but over the time I felt in love with it. it's brilliant album and it's so underated.

[nocultureicons]

I loved the album when it came out but shortly after started to dismiss it as a joke. A few years later I came back to it and fell in love all over again. It has some poor moments but I've trimmed it down to a more manageable 11 tracks and it is now one of my favourite MSP records.

I agree with TZB, Freedom of Speech has terrible production. The song itself is great but it never quite takes off the way it should. I'll try your tracklisting recommendation, the bsides you suggested for inclusion are great so I know it'll at least be decent.

[tzb]

Let me know what you think! I haven't committed it to CD yet but I may do, at the mo I rarely hear the good songs from this era.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Definitely an underated album IMO.

[Siouxsie Sway]

I think the song 'Intravenous Agnostic' is awsome!
I also like Epicentre, Found that soul, Let Robeson Sing, Dead Martyrs and Ocean Spray.
some of the other songs I could live without, though but that applies to any album (and not just by the Manics)

edit: I do think, as usual, that there are some b-sides that should be on the album instead of the ones that actually made it!

[madcap07]

I may just be slapped, banned or else for what I'm about to say but , let's go...:

IMO, Know You Enemy is to be taken a bit like Nicky's Holy Bible. It's full of disgust, hate, delusion, sadness, with himself, the world, society...It's like his vision of life at the time. Maybe that's why this album hasn't been received like the previous ones. Maybe we weren't expecting that. It's just so pessimistic through and through and sometimes obscure.
I personaly think Nicky wasn't feeling very well at this point of his life and needed to speak things out (just like I think he did when making IKTZ).
Most lines are very depressing or full of contained rage.
And musically, maybe they just felt the need to experiment and that brought us the likes of Miss Europa Disco Dancer or Ocean Spray.
Maybe they were simply pissed by being critically acclaimed for EMG and TIMT

I don't know, it's just how I feel about this album. It's not on my top list, but I listen to it regularly. There are some great songs on it...

[nocultureicons]

Originally Posted by madcap07

IMO, Know You Enemy is to be taken a bit like Nicky's Holy Bible. It's full of disgust, hate, delusion, sadness, with himself, the world, society...It's like his vision of life at the time. Maybe that's why this album hasn't been received like the previous ones. Maybe we weren't expecting that. It's just so pessimistic through and through and sometimes obscure.

YES. This is what I've said to various people but no one ever agrees.

[madcap07]

Originally Posted by nocultureicons

YES. This is what I've said to various people but no one ever agrees.

I'm very glad to find someone who shares my thoughts

[Nature's Discontent]

I agree with Flint over the album, it was meant to be messy and schizophrenic etc... Not saying it ranks among their best at all but I do still think it's a very good album