The Send Away The Tigers Discussion Thread

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

Originally Posted by centralscrutiniser

Do you feel they did that with JFPL? In theory they should have been completely free with that album but in a way I think they were more constrained than ever by living up to the 'legacy' and making what appears to be a concerted effort to do THB II.

For instance, I couldn't see James ever fitting the lyrics to She Bathed Herself In A Bath Of Bleach to the music for Postcards. Does this mean they were as constrained making JFLP by the tone as they were making PFAYM by their determination for commercial success?

Yes I think so, & I think it is out of respect for Richey that it doesn't sound forced. They obviously did not (sonically) want to do JFPL 2, that says something...I think.

Have to admit it's not without a slight disappointment that I suggest that.

EDIT: i see I spent so long thinking about that, that there have been other comments!

[centralscrutiniser]

Originally Posted by Napoleon Bonaparte

Yes I think so, & I think it is out of respect for Richey that it doesn't sound forced. They obviously did not (sonically) want to do JFPL 2, that says something...I think.

Have to admit it's not without a slight disappointment that I suggest that.

EDIT: i see I spent so long thinking about that, that there have been other comments!

Absolutely, I don't think it's necessarily a bad change. I just wonder, in light of the attitude towards Lifeblood and KYE and the '2 manics' comments, whether the band find themselves equally constrained by being either version but for differant reasons.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by centralscrutiniser

Maybe forced isn't the right word, and I think you're right - it does appear that James was compelled to write a certain kind of music to accompany Richey's lyrics. I suppose what I mean is, did that compulsion/habit/whatever you want to call it have the same constrictive effect, however inadvertant, as the deliberately commercial writing for PFAYM?

to do it broadly, and i qualify this with an "IMO" thing, it's pretty much that Richey's wire were/are always deeply personal, whereas Nicky tends to have a more general / "global/universal" thing going on. when it comes to THB and JFPL i think James composed for a perspective that this was for us and only us, with SATT, PFAYM the lyrics kind of dictate a more popularist feel to the music composition?

neither are particularly bad - of course the "hardcore" fans are always going to lean towards the THB/JFPL sound more vocally, which is hardly a crime, but it's not to say the more "popular" sound of the other albums is without merit, far from it in some instances.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

Originally Posted by centralscrutiniser

Absolutely, I don't think it's necessarily a bad change. I just wonder, in light of the attitude towards Lifeblood and KYE and the '2 manics' comments, whether the band find themselves equally constrained by being either version but for differant reasons.

Yeah I think they do, when all I really want them to do is satisfy themselves. Not to try & be innovative, or commercial, or anything inbetween, but just to do what they hell they want to do. Then again maybe they want to be commercial (or attempt to be), who can really say?

Gettin' way off the topic now

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

Originally Posted by leericketts

to do it broadly, and i qualify this with an "IMO" thing, it's pretty much that Richey's wire were/are always deeply personal, whereas Nicky tends to have a more general / "global/universal" thing going on. when it comes to THB and JFPL i think James composed for a perspective that this was for us and only us, with SATT, PFAYM the lyrics kind of dictate a more popularist feel to the music composition?

Yes I can see that, although I killed Thy Zeitgiest is musically closer to JFPL IMO. Worth thinking about.

[Jackie Collins]

Weirdly enough, I have dug this album out again and have been playing it quite a bit over the last few days.

I do like it but it always feels as though there is something missing that I can't put my finger on. Perhaps it is too short?

I get the hate for Autumnsong and understand why it is unloved but I think it's bloody wonderful. I love it. Imperial Bodybags is an awesome track also. I was never really keen on Indian Summer or Working Class Hero but, for me, it's still an enjoyable album. It way excels Lifeblood for me but that's just my preference.

[jac185]

It feels a bit superficial for a Manics album, but I think that might be why it is such an easy album to dip into.

Your Love Alone is actually the song on the album I can stand the least. I find it too long and very annoying.

I also really enjoy Patsy and Winterlovers at times, pretty upbeat tunes.

[centralscrutiniser]

Originally Posted by Napoleon Bonaparte

Yeah I think they do, when all I really want them to do is satisfy themselves. Not to try & be innovative, or commercial, or anything inbetween, but just to do what they hell they want to do. Then again maybe they want to be commercial (or attempt to be), who can really say?

Gettin' way off the topic now

Absolutely, I think most of us would love them to just play whatever the hell they want as it occurs to them!

It's not thaaaaaat far off topic, as I think SATT was the catalyst for this 'two manics' business and they've said that they were actively trying to ape SATT with PFAYM.

But anyway, SATT is great. Some real gems on it, including the second great depression which is my all time favorite of theirs.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Napoleon Bonaparte

Yes I can see that, although I killed Thy Zeitgiest is musically closer to JFPL IMO. Worth thinking about.

i have been thinking of pulling Zeitgiest out and giving it a spin, let me use this as the perfect excuse to. and, erm, SATT too, just to make this post seem relevant to the thread......

[darkanddivine]

Lyrically it's not fantastic and it has the boombast associated with the widescreen Manics sound, but ultimately while it is great in places it lacks substance overall.

While I am a big fan of James guitar work, I am a bit bothered that since SATT he has reverted to standard rock n roll major and minor chords to create the tunes and that's why so many of the songs post Lifeblood sound a bit tired quite quickly. Having said that, when he does it right (such as the title track) it's magical.

In the main it's enjoyable but doesn't stand up to repeat listens as it lacks a certain depth.

[riot_star]

SATT was the album that got me into the Manics, but I don't listen to it as much as I used to now. Personal favourites are Indian Summer (but the demo version), YLAINE, SATT, Underdogs and I'm Just A Patsy. Not too keen on Rendition, Imperial Bodybags or Winterlovers though.

[PCCCP]

'Send Away The Tigers' (the song) is pretty awesome. Most of the other stuff is ranging
from allright to bland, with an emphasis on bland unfortunately.
'YLAINE' is slightly better than allright.
I agree with whoever said that "musically the ending of 'Underdogs' is great" and I think
'Indian Summer' was a really poor single choice.
I think the new album is way, way better and there's a lot of radio-freindly material on there that SATT never really had.
Just a shame that '(INW)JTEOL' bombed so completely in the UK charts.

[Mirbeau]

Here's a differing opinion - I love the album, it's my favourite 'pop' album of theirs, and though admittedly tied in with a lot of good memories, easily in my Manics top 3. It's muscular, compact, melodic, with real power and just the right level of sheen behind it, quite unlike PFAYM which somehow seems flimsy. It has quite a few cringe-worthy dad-ish moments I'll conceed, (though with the manics this is becoming increasingly common) but I've long since got over those. Simply, the album just rocks well.

[relic]

I don't mind SATT songs played during a gig, and I quite like the beginning of Winterlovers, but I don't think I'd be too bothered if the album was completely erased from existence. I never listen to it.

I tried, I really did, but it never 'took'.

I'm just grateful that Journal and Postcards turned out so well.

[Bathtub]

I like it but I don't love it. But it's never going to be that kind of record for a lot of people.

I think it was the kind of record they needed to make for themselves, to have mainstream validation and critical approval again. It seemed like a very happy time for them with lots of gigs (many as good as they've done for years. Compare SATT first tour to the most recent and the SATT blows this one clean out the water for quality and diversity of setlist), critical reception, NME award and a sense of the indie press appreciating them as an essential band of the 1990's with potential still left.

The title track, Second Great Depression, Rendition, Indian Summer (musically), Your love alone and Winterlovers have all stood the test of time for me. And the weaker tracks like Autumnsong, Underdogs and Patsy at least have an admirable sense of the ridiculous running through them. It's a pretty straight down the line pop/rock effort but I think they pull it off to an admiral degree.

In fact the album as a whole has a refreshing lightness of touch and sense of humour that PFAYM with its bloated sense of importance and choirs and strings and all the associated fuckery that goes with it, is sorely lacking.