Biggest Manic Folly?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by starstruck

i included it because, at face value if nothing else, a "working class" band from Wales insisting on private toilets at a festival, is something of a folly. did Manics fans at Glasto that year also request and get private facilities?

If the said fans had been one of the big name stage acts who can realistically place such requests on the organisers who hire them to play music and attract paying customers, perhaps they could have. Maybe I'm just dim but I fail to see why the whole British social class fetishisization has anything to even remotely do with one set of musicians performing requesting their own toilets at a festival. Do people ever kick up a humongous fuss about the requests countless other artists place on their performance venues which go far beyond more preposterous than having your own toilet? If shitting in the same place as other people is your duty as a working class person, then god help social class issues have went down the drain (or the bog, if you prefer). Any sane person would want a clean toilet of their own at a festival - the Manics were in capability to ask for that and quite frankly I see nothing wrong with it.

The whole thing is basically about Billy Bragg being a drama queen who had a hissyfit.

[slatex]

Originally Posted by Flint

Constantly bashing a massive chunk of their past works while blindly believing they can only do two different types of rocking as a band, effectively closing themselves in a very small box with no desire to get out or acknowledge there is a world outside that box.

I still have no idea how the hell the "toiletgate" incident could be seen as something terrible.

Agree with all of the above!

[sculptureofabloke]

I voted for following JFPL with PFAYM. I like PFAYM but JFPL shits all over it. Seems that every album is a reaction from rather than a progression from the last one, but I'd have loved them to stay on the same vein as JFPL.

[Dancing Kirby]

The biggest folly of Toiletgate was Nicky's reaction and that abuse he spewed at Billy Bragg during that childish rant at T in the Park.

Then BB 'pwned his ass' further by suggesting they have a debate on their politics, which made Nicky run away and hide. He's been sucking up to BB ever since like a Stockholm Syndrome sufferer.

[Deets]

Nicky attire-disaster between 1996 and 2004

[meganslastwords]

No JFPL singles, definitely

[y2kyle16]

Originally Posted by meganslastwords

No JFPL singles, definitely

Sorry megan, disagree there.

JFPL was a stand alone album, any singles would have destroyed the point of the album.

I fully expect This is the day to be the final manics single...they'll just do albums now.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Flint

The whole thing is basically about Billy Bragg being a drama queen who had a hissyfit.

true, but it does seem to be the one incident that "sticks in the mind" of people who know little about the band or evern like them.

Originally Posted by Flint

Do people ever kick up a humongous fuss about the requests countless other artists place on their performance venues which go far beyond more preposterous than having your own toilet?

as an interesting (i hope) aside, this thing is explained in David Lee Roth's surprisingly excellent autobiography. he says that bands ask for ridiculous things for good reason. in short, his argument was "we are on stage with 50,000 volts above us, below us and a lot of water. we want to make sure that the people who we are trusting our and the fans' life to are paying attention, so we put clauses in the contract like 'if there are not 100 red M & M's in a brandy glass back stage the band will cancel the performance and keep the cash' just to make sure we know they have looked at everything".

some are no doubt vanity things, but those precise and odd backstage rider requests did start off for a valid reason.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by y2kyle16

JFPL was a stand alone album, any singles would have destroyed the point of the album.

might giving Jackie Collins (and i pick on this one as it must have been intended as a single, what with there being a radio edit and video) some airtime not have attracted new fans and indeed brought a few who had "given up on them" back?

i hear what you are saying about JFPL and it needing to be played from start to finish, but then again this is true of Misplaced Childhood and Tommy; singles did not hurt the experience and in fact brought more people to the albums.

[Scarecrow]

Know Your Enemy doesn't work brilliantly as an album, but still contains great songs. Cut out a few and put them as b-sides, would've been more solid.

I went for no singles off Journal. They act as though it's the most incomprehensible, inaccessible album in history, but I maintain if they had pushed Peeled Apples, Marlon J.D. or All Is Vanity in the right channels, they would've gone extremely well in alternative circles. The songs off that album were really strong, and could've gained new respect for the band from other audiences that the Postcards singles failed to do in the mainstream.

[Mr.Selfdestruct]

I don't get why people say that JFPL should be treated as a stand alone album. It's a MSP album. Just because it's full of Richey's lyrics doesn't mean they shouldn't have gone all mass communication with it. Anyone who accused them of cashing would be a heartless, cynical twat, who should be ignored.
THB needs to be listened to start to finish also, but i can't imagine that without singles.

[Ken Korda]

Recording and releasing PFAYM.

[meganslastwords]

Originally Posted by y2kyle16

Sorry megan, disagree there.

JFPL was a stand alone album, any singles would have destroyed the point of the album.

I completely get what you're saying, and I usually listen to it the whole way through, but I think Peeled Apples or JCEQT would have been good singles

[The Gutless Wonder]

Not releasing Glasnost as a single!

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Mr.Selfdestruct

I don't get why people say that JFPL should be treated as a stand alone album. It's a MSP album. Just because it's full of Richey's lyrics doesn't mean they shouldn't have gone all mass communication with it. Anyone who accused them of cashing would be a heartless, cynical twat, who should be ignored.
THB needs to be listened to start to finish also, but i can't imagine that without singles.

ahem, Everything Must Go featured Richey lyrics after he disappeared, and off the top of my head at least one of the singles (Kevin Carter? forgive my ageing memory) was penned by him. didn't stop them then, no idea why it stopped them now.

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Not releasing Glasnost as a single!

is this the first time you have found a reason to be, you know, sort of kind of possible to interpret as *** SPOILER TO SAVE SHOCK IN WHITE *** * critical * of the band??