Louder than war - Page 3 - Forever Delayed

Embla Claymore · #31 29-04-2010, 23:23

Millennium is pure adrenaline, I love it!

LTW is so weird... there's so much tension everywhere, like noone really knows exactly what to do or say!

PCCCP · #32 30-04-2010, 00:17

'Louder Than War' is their most interesting DVD release I think. The documentary bit is so
strange, surreal and funny. A highlight is the complete interview with the radio host. :-)

'Leaving The 20th Century' was an awesome release, and I must've watched it on VHS
like fifty times (before I got the DVD version).

I remember when the 'Forever Delayed: The Videos' DVD came out and how I just had to
show it to everyone I knew. Most of those early videos I had never or rarely seen before
so I recall it being quite an occasion when I first saw it all through. Haven't watched it in
three or four years though.

Mr Richey · #33 30-04-2010, 01:35

The one thing the NME documentary has over Louder Than War is it's not afraid to bring up the moral issue surrounding the trip to Cuba i.e. how it painted the Manics as supporting the poverty and crime that is a direct result of Castro's rule. I personally had massive issues with the band going there and I think, on reflection, they now see that it was a bit more than just playing a gig. I've heard both JDB and Wire refer to the meeting with Castro as intimidating and how they felt a bit used by the whole thing.

And considering KYE only has 5 songs on it that I like, I'd take the Millennium DVD over it any day.

The Gutless Wonder · #34 30-04-2010, 06:36

I think they were worried that Castro wasn't going to let them leave!

MSPlover · #35 30-04-2010, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

I think they were worried that Castro wasn't going to let them leave!

If they were with I won't let them live...

I want to see the DVD but I can't find them in the stores and I've been looking for so long

Embla Claymore · #36 30-04-2010, 12:26

what is the story behind this gig, how did it happen?

richeysite · #37 30-04-2010, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSPlover

I want to see the DVD but I can't find them in the stores and I've been looking for so long

It pops up on ebay every so often (like almost everything else, it seems). In fact, there was a copy on ebay last week.

tzb · #38 30-04-2010, 18:26

It's on amazon.co.uk - don't they deliver abroad? It's cheap too (about £5).

Mr.Selfdestruct · #39 30-04-2010, 18:30

As some have already said the C4 doc is vastly superior than the official VHS(never bothered getting it on dvd). I still have the C4 doc on video somewhere in the attic. I must have a look. The gig itself didn't look that great to me. Thats another reason the C4 doc is better. There's more interviews with the band and general following them around. And less of the gig itself.

I will have to get the millenium gig again as mine vanished. The greatest hits dvd is brilliant. It's often put on after returning home after a night out.

mrvitaminpill · #40 30-04-2010, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmartyr

Yeah, I know that - I was saying that they'd clearly edited in some of the Miss Europa footage from the gig with whatever song it was near the end when he was playing guitar as usual.

Yeah, during the guitar solo in Australia he is jumping up and down with a bass!

Phil C · #41 30-04-2010, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richey83

The one thing the NME documentary has over Louder Than War is it's not afraid to bring up the moral issue surrounding the trip to Cuba i.e. how it painted the Manics as supporting the poverty and crime that is a direct result of Castro's rule. I personally had massive issues with the band going there and I think, on reflection, they now see that it was a bit more than just playing a gig.

But don't you see the massive double standard about that? If they'd played in the US after the first Bush election in which various black voters were conveniently not able to vote, would you have said their trip supported the subversion of democracy? No. Would you have said it supported the Bush government's illegal wars? No. Would you have said it supported all the racist, homophobic legislation and cow-towing to big business no matter what it wanted? No. Because we accept that not everyone in the US can be defined by its government. In contrast when we think of Cuba we think only of the leader and forget the actual people in a way that's actually quite racist - they somehow count less than Americans (or Europeans for that matter).

(incidentally, a lot of the poverty in Cuba is surely due to the US trade embagoes, designed to treat countries that dare to have another economic system as enemies that need stamping out).

Nick in particular answered questions about the problems in Cuba at the time. He admitted it wasn't perfect, and gave a balanced account of its problems and its strengths.

The downsides of 'Louder Than War' for me are that you can't watch the gig in one go, and that they didn't play 'Intravenous Agnostic', 'Dead Martyrs', 'His Last Painting' or 'Epicentre'. But parts of it are great.

The Gutless Wonder · #42 30-04-2010, 20:19

In interviews since they've said that they weren't trying to align themselves with Castro's policies or whatever.

Finn · #43 30-04-2010, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil C

But don't you see the massive double standard about that? If they'd played in the US after the first Bush election in which various black voters were conveniently not able to vote, would you have said their trip supported the subversion of democracy? No. Would you have said it supported the Bush government's illegal wars? No. Would you have said it supported all the racist, homophobic legislation and cow-towing to big business no matter what it wanted? No. Because we accept that not everyone in the US can be defined by its government.

If they had chosen Washington DC as the promotional gig venue for an album, appeared on film fangirling in anticipation of meeting GWB, were filmed chatting with him and then invited him to the gig, etc... then I think people would assume a level of support for his policies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

In interviews since they've said that they weren't trying to align themselves with Castro's policies or whatever.

True, but it's hard to separate the intention from what was shown.

The Gutless Wonder · #44 30-04-2010, 20:31

Castro invited himself to the gig!

I know what you mean but at the time I didn't personally think it was a pro-Castro statement. I can understand why people just turning on the news and not knowing anything about the band might think that though.

Phil C · #45 30-04-2010, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn

If they had chosen Washington DC as the promotional gig venue for an album, appeared on film fangirling in anticipation of meeting GWB, were filmed chatting with him and then invited him to the gig, etc... then I think people would assume a level of support for his policies.

Castro turned up. He wasn't invited (which is made so clear in the documentary I'm amazed you can say he was). The band didn't arrange it. They were being filmed for a documentary which had nothing to do with meeting Castro as it was arranged before they knew anything about him coming. What should they have done - switched the cameras off and airbrush it from history?

Castro is a major 20th century figure, who did a lot of good things for Cuba...and a lot of less good things. It's interesting that people are determined to ignore the good things and highlight the bad when the band themselves have been much more balanced in their views.