Louder than war

[Finn]

Originally Posted by Phil C

Castro turned up. He wasn't invited (which is made so clear in the documentary I'm amazed you can say he was). The band didn't arrange it. They were being filmed for a documentary which had nothing to do with meeting Castro as it was arranged before they knew anything about him coming. What should they have done - switched the cameras off and airbrush it from history?

You honestly think that in the plans it took for this to happen that there were was never any conversation about meeting Castro or his being at the gig? That they just merrily went along with everything?

Originally Posted by Phil C

Castro is a major 20th century figure, who did a lot of good things for Cuba...and a lot of less good things. It's interesting that people are determined to ignore the good things and highlight the bad when the band themselves have been much more balanced in their views.

I haven't denied his historical importance or the good things that he had accomplished; nor have I painted him as bad or evil. What I pointed out was that your GWB analogy didn't hold water and that they should have realised that intention and public perception aren't always the same thing. I don't think that is irrational or insulting.

Come on, were talking about a band that prided themselves on manipulating the music press and political stance - not JLS!

[The Gutless Wonder]

I disagree that there was any pre-arranged thing about Castro going to the gig. The band would surely have been more relaxed if that was the case?

[Embla Claymore]

I'll ask again: does anyone recall how this gig happened? I'm sure they didn't just say 'Oh let's go play in Cuba!'... someone must've planned this quite carefully, or...?

[Finn]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

I disagree that there was any pre-arranged thing about Castro going to the gig. The band would surely have been more relaxed if that was the case?

I didn't say it was pre-arranged, I just doubt that the possibility was never discussed - after all, we know they went as far as discussing Nicky's outfit! As for the nervousness, if you knew you were going to meet someone you admired would you really be more relaxed than if you didn't know?

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by BlackStone

I'll ask again: does anyone recall how this gig happened? I'm sure they didn't just say 'Oh let's go play in Cuba!'... someone must've planned this quite carefully, or...?

A friend or something noticed alot of Cuban references in the lyrics and asked if it was by accident or design (James' words). James said it was just accident. This friend then mentioned about maybe doing a gig in Cuba. Martin Hall then apparently started getting it organised. Remebering this from an interview CD that I've got.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by Finn

I didn't say it was pre-arranged, I just doubt that the possibility was never discussed - after all, we know they went as far as discussing Nicky's outfit.

Yeah, I mean Nicky probably had it all worked out in his mind that he would meet Castro, SOMEHOW! If it was discussed at all, I reckon James and Sean probably would've just pulled faces at each other and told Nicky to stop being so daft!

Edit - not laughing AT you by the way. Just the discussing of Nicky's garments!

[Embla Claymore]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

A friend or something noticed alot of Cuban references in the lyrics and asked if it was by accident or design (James' words). James said it was just accident. This friend then mentioned about maybe doing a gig in Cuba. Martin Hall then apparently started getting it organised. Remebering this from an interview CD that I've got.

Thanks!

Well so it's not completely far-fetched to assume that the meeting with Castro was also in the plan....

[Deets]

Originally Posted by PCCCP

I remember when the 'Forever Delayed: The Videos' DVD came out and how I just had to
show it to everyone I knew. Most of those early videos I had never or rarely seen before
so I recall it being quite an occasion when I first saw it all through. Haven't watched it in
three or four years though.

THEY MISS STRIP IT DOWN THAT'S WHY I HATE FD DVD!!!




no, I don't really, but it's sad because it would be hillarious to have the full version of Strip It Down WOULDN'T IT?????

Originally Posted by BlackStone

what is the story behind this gig, how did it happen?

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

A friend or something noticed alot of Cuban references in the lyrics and asked if it was by accident or design (James' words). James said it was just accident. This friend then mentioned about maybe doing a gig in Cuba. Martin Hall then apparently started getting it organised. Remebering this from an interview CD that I've got.

I remember Nicky supported this idea a lot too. do they have Sony on Cuba? I don't think so and I remember the boys saying it was quite difficult organizing the gig. and they weren't the first western band to play in Cuba, I remember one article where James mentioned the other band and I can't recall their name unfortunatelly, any ideas?
about Castro, well it was quite a big thing, many tv stations were saying about it (my friend even said the Polish news service mentioned about it in the main report ha!) and they met Castro twice, once before (or after?) the gig and the second time another day. Castro invited them for the 3rd time but they decided not to go as 'such meeting always help the polititian, never the artist' or something that way.
and yes, it was Castro's initiative, Nicky looked really excited on the footage

p.s. I absolutely ADORE Ocean Spray Kinobe Remix that is in the main menu of this gig. it's one of the most beautiful remixes of Manics' tracks ever, it made OS even better! <3 <3 <3

[Finn]

Originally Posted by Deets

I remember the boys saying it was quite difficult organizing the gig.

The Manics' manager, Martin Hall, and entourage spent months cutting through red tape to make the gig a reality. The British Council and the Labour MP and Energy minister Peter Hain have got involved.

Originally Posted by Deets

and they weren't the first western band to play in Cuba,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Jam

Originally Posted by Deets

Castro invited them for the 3rd time but they decided not to go as 'such meeting always help the polititian, never the artist' or something that way.

Wire revisionism!

'Oh, I thought that would happen anyway. I'm not naive enough to believe that they wouldn't use us to promote something for them. And let's face it, we're using them just as much.

From the same report

Amnesty International reports that people do lose their jobs for saying the wrong thing, that there are political prisoners in Cuban jails (whose offences can and do consist merely of criticising the annual report of the Communist Party - a couple were handed three years for this), while gay people languish in squalid correctional institutes as a direct result of their sexuality. Until someone works out a way to look into Castro's soul, no one can say how much of this is purely a defensive reaction to years of US hostility, but it's a fact. Nicky Wire has been firmly instructed not to wear a skirt onstage, as he often does at home.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2001/...1.lifemagazine

[Deets]

thanks Finn!

Originally Posted by Finn

bloody bastards

[Finn]

You're welcome, I've got tons of stuff in print from this, but it's all in the loft

[Embla Claymore]

Thanks Finn!

Well, of course Nicky could not wear a skirt... or make-up. They would've jailed him on the spot!

[Bryter Layter]

It actually made me laugh to read that some of you honestly believe Castro just showed up out of the blue. A man with an entourage and security force that would make even your own PM blush, doesn't just "show up" somewhere publically without "calling ahead". It's called logistics. Even if the Manics didn't know he would be there (which I highly doubt was the case), someone in their own posse surely knew about it.

[hell is in hello]

The band knew that Castro was going to be at the show, he had to leave early so they were asked to move Baby Elian up in the setlist.

[Classified Machine]

Originally Posted by hell is in hello

The band knew that Castro was going to be at the show, he had to leave early so they were asked to move Baby Elian up in the setlist.

They found out on the day. Castro actually asks them when they're going to play it!