Biggest Manic Folly?

[Parma Violets]

Most of the Manics' follies delight me to some extent; going on stage at Glasto and saying they should build a bypass over the site and wishing AIDS on Michael Stipe is obviously gratuitously provocative and maybe if a band I hated did it I'd be righteously disapproving, but since it's Nicky it just gives me a giggle of childish glee (and I loved REM). Likewise toiletgate; it's just an amusing sideshow to me.

Some of the criticism of their recent decisions feels a bit more serious to me. Journal for Plague Lovers was not Metal Machine Music and didn't deserve to be talked up as such; it included many punchy, catchy, immediately loveable songs, and it would have been worth testing out stuff like 'Me and Stephen Hawking' and 'Peeled Apples' as singles. Maybe they would have bombed. It's a poor market for rock singles at the moment. But they would have been a more honourable bombing than the commercial, safe Postcards singles.

The treatment of PFAYM is the one that bothers me the most. One year on and I'm really coming to enjoy it, but it bothers me that there's three dull singles frontloaded onto it (one of which - the title track - is basically a rewrite of 'The Second Great Depression' from Send Away The Tigers) before you get onto the great stuff like 'Golden Platitudes', 'A Billion Balconies Facing The Sun', 'The Future Has Been Here 4Ever' and 'Don't Be Evil' on the second half. Really, putting the best song on the album on last is pretty insane.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by Midlands_Junk

Like most people, I've gone for quickly following JFPL with Postcards From A Young Man.
There was just no need for it. They were on fire, in terms of energy and creativity.
They were incredible live and were making some really exciting sounds with some great ideas.
They'd already covered the re-hashed EMG ground on SATT, we didn't need another over-egged attempt.
They should have gone away, proud of all they'd achieved in the last few years, taken stock and come back with something fresh and new

My other main Manics gripe is releasing TLORN instead of 1985. I do love TLORN to bits, but it's not a lead single and it killed any chance of the album being taken seriously and heard by a wider audience. Lifeblood deserves to be universally regarded as one of the band's best albums, up there with THB, EMG, TIMT and JFPL. It's depressing to see the band not recognise this.

agree with all of this tho' i do like PFAYM

[Littlesue]

The three singles off PFAYM are the only tracks I can bare listen to.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by Littlesue

The three singles off PFAYM are the only tracks I can bare listen to.

you don't like Golden Platitudes? I love that

[ISLWYN]

Having a dig at Freddie Mercury was a tad nasty.

[ISLWYN]

Telling everyone who owned a Kula Shaker and Ocean Colour Scene record, 'to burn the fuckers' was quite funny and sort of ironic.

[Midlands_Junk]

The whole leather jacket thing for Lifeblood promo was a bit shit wasn't it? Especially when you consider how cool they all looked on that winter tour.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by ISLWYN

Having a dig at Freddie Mercury was a tad nasty.

now that you mention it, i seem to recall all the coverage / outrage was "how dare he say that about Michael Stipe?". no one seemed that bothered he was having a go at Freddie too, in an indirect way. it's like "dolphin friendly tuna" i suppose; fuck the tuna, they are not cute like dolphins and they taste good.

Originally Posted by ISLWYN

Telling everyone who owned a Kula Shaker and Ocean Colour Scene record, 'to burn the fuckers' was quite funny and sort of ironic.

attacking the "massive" fanbases of Kula and The Scene does tend to underline what a happy but sheltered life our Nick has built for himself. has he ever had a go at Shed Seven?

[framedadolescence]

Making Generation Terrorists sound like an 80's soft metal album. It should have been produced in the same vein as Suicide Alley & Democracy Coma. It would have been an amazing punk album.

The tunes are there but the production? Nah.

[Littlesue]

The worse thing he did was have a go at the bloke in the audience for dare looking at his watch. That would have made me cry!! I'm sure he would'nt like it if someone picked on his kids like that

[2004567]

Originally Posted by framedadolescence

Making Generation Terrorists sound like an 80's soft metal album. It should have been produced in the same vein as Suicide Alley & Democracy Coma. It would have been an amazing punk album.

The tunes are there but the production? Nah.

Funny how they wanted it 'as far as the 80's as possible'.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by Littlesue

The worse thing he did was have a go at the bloke in the audience for dare looking at his watch. That would have made me cry!! I'm sure he would'nt like it if someone picked on his kids like that

yea that was spiteful. He might've looked at watch to figure out how many songs were left and not cos he was bored

[Europa Gluten Free]

Great thread.

The biggest Manics folly for me is not dealing strategically with huge commercial success circa 1998-2001. With TIMT they were the biggest band in the UK at the time: a platinum selling album, hit singles, critical acclaim. The peak of which was the Millennium gig - 60,000 people paying to go and see a Manics concert.

The key moment for me is getting No.1 with Masses Against the Classes. Again it was a sign of their popularity at the time but I think it gave them (them as in the band, management, label etc) a false sense of superiority. Bands need to remember (especially when their egos are at their biggest) that they are successful because they are producing music that appeals to the masses - not that the masses have suddenly realised the appeal of your band and its manifesto.

They've spoken about how commercial success didn't sit well with them. I think this is mainly due to the guilt of their acquired wealth after Richey's disappearance rather than any artistic issues. Wire has been trying for the last 10 years for the band to return to those levels of commercial popularity ffs. We all know he'll whore himself out for any commercial cause.

Put simply, the 'concept' of Know Your Enemy was a complete failure. They talk about Lifeblood as their most vacuous moment but truly it was KYE. Now I say 'conceptually' and I mean that in terms of its strategic implications in the overall trajectory of the Manics career and legacy. I like the album a lot. There are some great tunes on there. But believing that success came from some sort of artistic power that allowed them to turn their backs on the business and still maintain their level of appeal was their greatest folly. It was their biggest mistake and took them 6 years to recover from. If they had of released another MOR chart rock album (like SATT) they would have released probably 2 more albums with solid critical and commercial success in 2003 and 2005 - rather than choosing (and choosing is the word) to fall back on an awful Greatest Hits and a (quite frankly) 'who gives a fuck' B-sides collection in 2003.

I'm going to have another think about this and get back to you all....

[hummingbird]

KYE is definitely the black sheep of the family for me..not lifeblood

[Bobafettish]

Originally Posted by proevpete

Great thread.

The biggest Manics folly for me is not dealing strategically with huge commercial success circa 1998-2001. With TIMT they were the biggest band in the UK at the time: a platinum selling album, hit singles, critical acclaim. The peak of which was the Millennium gig - 60,000 people paying to go and see a Manics concert.

The key moment for me is getting No.1 with Masses Against the Classes. Again it was a sign of their popularity at the time but I think it gave them (them as in the band, management, label etc) a false sense of superiority. Bands need to remember (especially when their egos are at their biggest) that they are successful because they are producing music that appeals to the masses - not that the masses have suddenly realised the appeal of your band and its manifesto.

They've spoken about how commercial success didn't sit well with them. I think this is mainly due to the guilt of their acquired wealth after Richey's disappearance rather than any artistic issues. Wire has been trying for the last 10 years for the band to return to those levels of commercial popularity ffs. We all know he'll whore himself out for any commercial cause.

Put simply, the 'concept' of Know Your Enemy was a complete failure. They talk about Lifeblood as their most vacuous moment but truly it was KYE. Now I say 'conceptually' and I mean that in terms of its strategic implications in the overall trajectory of the Manics career and legacy. I like the album a lot. There are some great tunes on there. But believing that success came from some sort of artistic power that allowed them to turn their backs on the business and still maintain their level of appeal was their greatest folly. It was their biggest mistake and took them 6 years to recover from. If they had of released another MOR chart rock album (like SATT) they would have released probably 2 more albums with solid critical and commercial success in 2003 and 2005 - rather than choosing (and choosing is the word) to fall back on an awful Greatest Hits and a (quite frankly) 'who gives a fuck' B-sides collection in 2003.

I'm going to have another think about this and get back to you all....

good post.