Album 15

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

I think a far more straightforward answer is that Nicky believes PFAYM would have been more commerically successful if it followed on directly from SATT. They'd had a big hit with YLAINE, moderate radio play with Autumnsong and so commercially it would make sense to follow up with an album that would be another commercial effort. Nicky probably still thinks that PFAYM is the greatest thing since sliced pan instead of an overproduced attempt at a polished turd, and so I can imagine him thinking they missed out on 'mass communication' because they created proper art in between those two albums.

If you think there was discomfort at grave robbing or anything I think one should remember that they were happy capitalising on Richey's image and lyrics in Judge Yr'self and using the sacroscant 'folder lyrics' in Picturesque.

I really don't think that commercial success was their interest during those times.They used Richey's words with good intention to create JFPL from his unseen work, even though some fans so clued into him might say it shouldnt have been made and he would've agreed... To say they wanted to make money out of him is a typical deluded comment and I think the band knew him more than manics experts. It's clear enough their success rides with truth reality and pessimism that's ingrained in their songs not commercialism

[Tish]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

As for integrity, still snowing in sapporo, speaks volumes to that.....

What's wrong with Still Snowing in Sapporo? I thought it was beautiful, one of the highlights of the last album.

Also, PFAYM was a commercial success, it went Gold and got to number 3, so was almost as big as SATT. I know the singles didn't chart as highly but that was entirely due to the way the singles charts had changed between 2007 and 2010, counting streaming numbers meant Sony's tried and tested method of releasing every single on three different formats didn't work any more.

So I don't know why Nicky would blame JFPL for it not doing well?

[MSPKYE]

First review has dropped!

https://recordcollectormag.com/revie...tical-thinking

[Mr Richey]

Originally Posted by MSPKYE

First review has dropped!

https://recordcollectormag.com/revie...tical-thinking

Yeah, Nicky Wire mocking the notion of “It’s okay to not be okay” sounds like a proper riot �� And to openly mock the concept of “Be kind” in one song only to then say “It takes guts to be kind” later in a song that’s ostensibly about how we should all forgive fucking Morrissey?! Jesus wept…

[blackflower]

I think the album sounds amazing from that review. Massively excited!

[savemejebus]

Originally Posted by rosetree

They used Richey's words with good intention to create JFPL from his unseen work, even though some fans so clued into him might say it shouldnt have been made and he would've agreed... To say they wanted to make money out of him is a typical deluded comment and I think the band knew him more than manics experts.

I think that you may need to read what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote.

Originally Posted by Tish

What's wrong with Still Snowing in Sapporo? I thought it was beautiful, one of the highlights of the last album.

will pm you as I don't want to take this thread in that direction.

[Glyn]

Originally Posted by MSPKYE

First review has dropped!

https://recordcollectormag.com/revie...tical-thinking

Cheers, definitely sounds like a 80's pop inspired record (similar to both singles) bookended with two Wire rants then. Can live with that if D&F is on the more cheesy side and HiPS is on the indie side.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Mr Richey

Yeah, Nicky Wire mocking the notion of “It’s okay to not be okay” sounds like a proper riot �� And to openly mock the concept of “Be kind” in one song only to then say “It takes guts to be kind” later in a song that’s ostensibly about how we should all forgive fucking Morrissey?! Jesus wept…

I have to admit this has grabbed my curiosity. If he's merely criticising the cut and paste sloganeering (dare I say) virtue signalling on social media, I get it. It would certainly be a lot more petty to actually oppose the intended compassion and changing of attitudes reflected in this lyric:

"He goes on to reel off a list of live-laugh-love slogans (“It’s OK to not be OK, live your best life, be kind”) with such withering sarcasm you can practically see his eyes roll."

As for the Morrissey part, I'll reserve judgement until reading the full lyrics and hearing the full song, but I wonder if Wire is yearning for the Morrissey he idolised in his youth as many former fans seem to now, he was part of that generation after all. I personally never liked him* so from the outside it appears as if the tide has turned and I've noticed many people lamenting the lost version of who they thought he was and what they felt he represented.

From this review, the song I am most interested in hearing is '(Was I) Being Baptised'.

*On a related note, as a lifelong anti-Morrissey man, the 1985 lyric was already questionable for me, so the prospect of the Manics even having a song like 'Dear Stephen' is maximum cringe.

[tomd2103]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

I think a far more straightforward answer is that Nicky believes PFAYM would have been more commerically successful if it followed on directly from SATT. They'd had a big hit with YLAINE, moderate radio play with Autumnsong and so commercially it would make sense to follow up with an album that would be another commercial effort. Nicky probably still thinks that PFAYM is the greatest thing since sliced pan instead of an overproduced attempt at a polished turd, and so I can imagine him thinking they missed out on 'mass communication' because they created proper art in between those two albums.

If you think there was discomfort at grave robbing or anything I think one should remember that they were happy capitalising on Richey's image and lyrics in Judge Yr'self and using the sacroscant 'folder lyrics' in Picturesque.

I read similar comments about JFPL from him in a recent interview. For me, it remains one of their very best albums, yet they have never seemed fond of it.

I can understand that it may have been a very difficult album to make given the circumstances and that they may have concluded after it that they maybe shouldn't have done it, but the comments in the interview seemed to suggest it was because it was a commercial failure (as above Nicky Wire was suggesting that they should have released Postcards instead to build on the commercial success of Tigers).

I've always found it interesting how they seem to view their albums through the prism of commercial success, with those that they deemed not to have performed commercially being written off somewhat.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by tomd2103

the comments in the interview seemed to suggest it was because it was a commercial failure (as above Nicky Wire was suggesting that they should have released Postcards instead to build on the commercial success of Tigers).

If that is what they truly believe, it's certainly odd considering how well it was received. I remember going into HMV the week it was released or the week after and seeing it at #3 in the charts, behind Eminem and Green Day who inevitably would always sell more anyway. Reviews were consistently positive, the tour was well received.

I absolutely love the album, down to the songwriting, the artwork, Albini's production, and I never felt alone in that enjoyment of it. A strange shame the band don't touch it live.

[Mr Richey]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

I have to admit this has grabbed my curiosity. If he's merely criticising the cut and paste sloganeering (dare I say) virtue signalling on social media, I get it. It would certainly be a lot more petty to actually oppose the intended compassion and changing of attitudes reflected in this lyric:



As for the Morrissey part, I'll reserve judgement until reading the full lyrics and hearing the full song, but I wonder if Wire is yearning for the Morrissey he idolised in his youth as many former fans seem to now, he was part of that generation after all. I personally never liked him* so from the outside it appears as if the tide has turned and I've noticed many people lamenting the lost version of who they thought he was and what they felt he represented.

From this review, the song I am most interested in hearing is '(Was I) Being Baptised'.

*On a related note, as a lifelong anti-Morrissey man, the 1985 lyric was already questionable for me, so the prospect of the Manics even having a song like 'Dear Stephen' is maximum cringe.

The only sentiment that I can agree with from that album review is the closing line: "All these years later, they’re needed more than ever." It’s just a pity then that the band we need is long gone and all we're left with is three bitter old grumps, who no longer believe in anything they spent most of their career standing for and who now open new albums with songs raging against - checks notes - kindness, tolerance and acceptance…

Sofarsideways already summed it up perfectly for me:

Originally Posted by sofarsideways

I can’t believe people are shrugging at the frontman of the great political band not even bothering to vote. And the member who’s so proud of his politics degree throwing in some more excuses for that self-indulgent apathy. Looking back now… we slippery-sloped here, huh? There were signs for a long time. I just didn’t or wouldn’t see them for what they were. I still haven’t really accepted it. This band was my LIFE.

[tomd2103]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

If that is what they truly believe, it's certainly odd considering how well it was received. I remember going into HMV the week it was released or the week after and seeing it at #3 in the charts, behind Eminem and Green Day who inevitably would always sell more anyway. Reviews were consistently positive, the tour was well received.

I absolutely love the album, down to the songwriting, the artwork, Albini's production, and I never felt alone in that enjoyment of it. A strange shame the band don't touch it live.

The interview I read was in Mojo, "He (NW) thinks they probably should have gone straight into 2010's similarly 'big and bombastic' Postcards From a Young Man but Bradfield wanted to make Journal For Plague Lovers which honoured Edwards' final cache of lyrics. 'That was a f@cking curveball' says Wire. 'Artistically we gained but commercially we threw people off the scent again."

[Mr Richey]

Originally Posted by tomd2103

The interview I read was in Mojo, "He (NW) thinks they probably should have gone straight into 2010's similarly 'big and bombastic' Postcards From a Young Man but Bradfield wanted to make Journal For Plague Lovers which honoured Edwards' final cache of lyrics. 'That was a f@cking curveball' says Wire. 'Artistically we gained but commercially we threw people off the scent again."

Speaks volumes doesn’t it? Wire was more interested in getting back the popularity that they intentionally threw away after TIMTTMY than in creating a genuinely brilliant piece of art/heartfelt tribute with JFPL. I honestly believe he had his head turned by their unexpected resurgence in popularity from SATT and has been chasing commercial relevance and approval ever since. He certainly doesn’t give a shit about social justice, collective action or speaking truth to power anymore.

[ZiZi]

Do albums still leak early these days? I vividly remember the times checking the Radiohead forum.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by ZiZi

Do albums still leak early these days? I vividly remember the times checking the Radiohead forum.

Sometimes. I'm sure someone posted a link to a TUVL leak in a Facebook group that Sean Moore is in and he was rather miffed!