Know Your Enemy 20 scheduled for 2021 release - Page 90 - Forever Delayed

Suicide Aldi · #**1336** 19-09-2022, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey

Now I'm wondering how much irony is there :-)

Not being ironic at all, just really appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed reply. Its interesting hearing peoples views on the politics set out in the bands lyrics from people who have grown up in countries OTHER than the UK.

Routine Builder · #**1337** 19-09-2022, 10:42

Let's not pretend that the US is a passive actor in all of this. The US were happy to sponsor the equally brutal dictatorship in Iran until 1979 while imposing worldwide sanctions on Cuba supposedly for the same crimes. Does that make the Castro regime any less brutal? No. But criticism of the US is not necessarily an endorsement of the Castro regime.

taxexile · #**1338** 19-09-2022, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartek Wyre

I don't get the fuss you guys make about stuff like Brian Warner's tasty little ass or Baby Elian. As cringeworthy as the former might seem today, it was clearly written tongue-in-(ass) cheek and could even be perceived as ironic.

Given this thread was about a reissue and recent reissues have had changes made upon the original, and as new information came out about this release being remixed, and we have seen changes made to the lyrics, it's not that really a "fuss". I suppose if you take a position, a gamble if you like, that these possible changes would not be delivered and you had an emotional-investment in that, then you might use the word "fuss".

If the thread had been titled "Favourite Crisps" then yes, I could see your point. This thread has literally been a place for conjecture prior to the release. I think that was it's purpose for a certain point in time.

(Note I address the "argument"? That's how it's done kids)

Routine Builder · #**1339** 19-09-2022, 10:57

The lyrics haven't changed, a small error in pronunciation was corrected. If you're going to be condescending, at least get the facts straight.

Bartek Wyre · #**1340** 19-09-2022, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by taxexile

Given this thread was about a reissue and recent reissues have had changes made upon the original, and as new information came out about this release being remixed, and we have seen changes made to the lyrics, it's not that really a "fuss". I suppose if you take a position, a gamble if you like, that these possible changes would not be delivered and you had an emotional-investment in that, then you might use the word "fuss".

OK, for me "fuss" equals going ballistic over what is little more than a lyrical name check, and a funny one too.

As for any other lyrical revisionism that the Manics may be guilty of - I'm all against it.

Donkey · #**1341** 19-09-2022, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartek Wyre

I don't get the fuss you guys make about stuff like Brian Warner's tasty little ass or Baby Elian. As cringeworthy as the former might seem today, it was clearly written tongue-in-(ass) cheek and could even be perceived as ironic.

I don't think so. As I mentioned earlier, there was an interview with JDB in that he explained the line: they admired Manson, James would say "I would like to be like him", whereas Nicky's way to say the same is the line in the song.

IMHO it's not a big deal, they just admire a person, which I really don't admire. But then it's a valid reason to dislike the lyric.

Donkey · #**1342** 19-09-2022, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Let's not pretend that the US is a passive actor in all of this. The US were happy to sponsor the equally brutal dictatorship in Iran until 1979 while imposing worldwide sanctions on Cuba supposedly for the same crimes. Does that make the Castro regime any less brutal? No. But criticism of the US is not necessarily an endorsement of the Castro regime.

I would say, that to release KYE, to put the flag on Masses and above all to play Cuba is a clear endorsement of the Castro regime. And even if they hadn't wanted to endorse it (who knows?), they did and they were certainly used by the regime - Dean Reed anyone?

After all I still believe it was simply a childish reaction. They tried hard to impress America in 90s and failed a big time. But of course I hope it is not like that. :-)

As for the first part of your contribution: I don't pretend anything like that and have no idea, why do you think so. There's a big difference though: US might have made mistakes, but it's a democratic country where the leaders pay the bills for their decisions. It is possible for us to criticize the decisions and it is possible for the citizens of us to criticize them and to achieve some changes. Yes - all this is not perfect, but nothing what mankind creates is. but it is something which is not happening and not possible on Cuba.

Bartek Wyre · #**1343** 19-09-2022, 12:53

Full disclosure: I'm not a fan of Manson as a musician or a person. I also recall from interviews that they'd toured Australia together some time before and apparently he didn't come across as an asshole to JDB or Nicky (quite the contrary). But then it's just a goofy lyric that can be read in different ways, even from today's perspective, knowing what we know about Brian. I mean, surely you don't think JDB or Nicky would fancy eating Manson's ass, do ya?

counterlanguage · #**1344** 19-09-2022, 13:08

Manson invited himself into their dressing room at the Big Day Out in Australia back in 1999 and it seems like they got on like a house on fire - no doubt helped by some drinks that Manson brought with him.

The lyric always sounded to me like a bit of a tongue in cheek tribute that he would have appreciated if he ever heard the album. They were kindred spirits of sorts in the early/mid 90s - e.g. the GT era Manics were provocative in a similar way to Manson's Antichrist Superstar.

Donkey · #**1345** 19-09-2022, 13:12

:-D

I believe James also said they watched him from backstage - probably they stared too long at his ass or I don't know what's wrong in Nicky's head.

(for a strange reason I am not allowed to quote you, Bartek!)

counterlanguage · #**1346** 19-09-2022, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey

:-D

I believe James also said they watched him from backstage - probably they stared too long at his ass or I don't know what's wrong in Nicky's head.

Considering the whole lyric's supposed to be based on Nicky looking at a collage on his wall at home it wouldn't just be in his head!

Bartek Wyre · #**1347** 19-09-2022, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by counterlanguage

The lyric always sounded to me like a bit of a tongue in cheek tribute that he would have appreciated if he ever heard the album. They were kindred spirits of sorts in the early/mid 90s - e.g. the GT era Manics were provocative in a similar way to Manson's Antichrist Superstar.

My thoughts exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey

(for a strange reason I am not allowed to quote you, Bartek!)

Aye, guess I'm unquotable

Must be some glitch in the forum. I usually add quotes to my posts manually, give that a try next time Jakub.

Suicide Aldi · #**1348** 19-09-2022, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey

:-D

I believe James also said they watched him from backstage - probably they stared too long at his ass or I don't know what's wrong in Nicky's head.

(for a strange reason I am not allowed to quote you, Bartek!)

I thought it was reference to Brian Warner baring his naked ass on stage at a festival, and pulling the cheeks so far apart that you could clear see his poop chute. A poster of it was given away with a magazine and it was a bit of a running joke at the time. Theres a video of Travis playing Glasgows Gig on the Green in 2001, where Fran Healy asks the crowd if they enjoyed Marlyn Manson, and if he got his bottom out this time. He then laughs and says somthing like "I can gaurentee you will never see our arseholes!"

Routine Builder · #**1349** 19-09-2022, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey

As for the first part of your contribution: I don't pretend anything like that and have no idea, why do you think so. There's a big difference though: US might have made mistakes, but it's a democratic country where the leaders pay the bills for their decisions. It is possible for us to criticize the decisions and it is possible for the citizens of us to criticize them and to achieve some changes. Yes - all this is not perfect, but nothing what mankind creates is. but it is something which is not happening and not possible on Cuba.

The problem is the foreign policy of the US. Did the people of Iran have a choice when the US organised a coup that toppled the country's only democratically elected government. At the behest of Winston Churchill no less. Democracy for their citizens, not so much for others. The US's reputation abroad would be a lot better if it didn't interfere with the governments of so many countries. And to be honest as we're seeing with Trump, being able to criticize elected leaders and holding them to account are very very different things.

Bartek Wyre · #**1350** 19-09-2022, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicide Aldi

I thought it was reference to Brian Warner baring his naked ass on stage at a festival, and pulling the cheeks so far apart that you could clear see his poop chute. A poster of it was given away with a magazine and it was a bit of a running joke at the time. Theres a video of Travis playing Glasgows Gig on the Green in 2001, where Fran Healy asks the crowd if they enjoyed Marlyn Manson, and if he got his bottom out this time. He then laughs and says somthing like "I can gaurentee you will never see our arseholes!"

Well this explains a lot, thanks!