Biggest Manic Folly?

[Futurologist]

Lifeblood grew on me. Not a folly in my book.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by starstruck

yes, and then you quickly withdraw them and play the record that you complained about on repeat to "correct" your thinking. Dan Brown is going to feature you in one of them books he does one day.

and we love you for it

Aaaaaaaaaaaw! Ta!

I would have a full on argument about Lifeblood with James, I really would! It would be hilarious to watch as well!

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by starstruck

btw, and watch someone pull the rug from under me just now, but 48 votes, 6 pages of ace conversation and not one vote cast or comment made that Lifeblood was their greatest folly.

what can i say? eat shit, Mr James Dean Bradfield. we like/love it, or at least don't hold it high as a low.

print screen and show the band at the signings! Rabbit got into the manics with Lifeblood...we're building evidence ! WE SHALL SUCCEED

[Flint]

I'm still saying that we should organise it so that when they play Nixon and Empty Souls in the O2 gig (and TBTGOG too), everyone should just burst into raucous, joyous applause. That'll show them.

[hummingbird]

someone's voted lifeblood... WHO DID THAT??

[Flint]

BURN THE HEATHEN

[Europa Gluten Free]

Originally Posted by Flint

I adore KYE and I don't think its timing was wrong stylistically or anything, but the whole "let's alienate the masses and destroy the spotlight of fame" ethos behind it was incredibly silly and daft.

I think you're exactly right.

Originally Posted by Hummingbird

The frustrating thing about KYE is that individual songs are great but as an album it just doesn't work.. i've tried so hard to like it but They had planned to release a double album but bottled it. Think that might've been a better idea ... double albums are always risky but they might've flowed better

Even the idea of releasing a double album, even if it was to be the rock / MOR dichotomy, is further proof of their mis-calculation of their position within the music world at the time. TBH I'd say a double album wouldn't have worked and would have bombed much the way the SWSS / FTS double release blew up in their faces.

Originally Posted by Parma Violets

Let's say they made a more commercial album at that time, though - how long would it have lasted them? The whole of the last decade in music seems to have been a case of diminishing returns for commercial rock bands. Would they have been able to help drag mainstream rock music in a better direction during the "landfill indie" years, or would they have felt the need to cut ties with the mainstream eventually? Maybe KYE just accelerated the inevitable. I do think on its own terms it's quite a frustrating album, though.

Let's say they released a straight up guitar album. 12 songs of verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, outro. No big TIMT production. No KYE anti-production. Essentially basic commercial 4 min rock songs. I don't want to say garage rock but remember 2001 was the year of The Strokes with The Libertines coming the year after. Nicky has spoken of James phoning him up after doing an acoustic version of LBN on Jools and being blown away by the Libertines on there. (Again with all these comments I'm not saying these bands were the best bands around at this time - I'm just talking in more abstract conceptual terms.) They could have had a place alongside these bands - their own space away from gritty indie garage rock - but still within the mainstream rock avenues.

Think of Forever Delayed (the single). A straightforward 4 min rock tune with a big hook in the chorus. But they went for TBTGOG - a tuneless dull 3 mins of 'look at our fancy suits that we can now afford' pretension. Imagine a rock album with songs in the vain of FD, Automatik Teknicolor, Pedestal, Door to the River etc, possibly alongside honest productions of songs like FTS, IA, LRS, OS, FOSWFMC, BE. Ok, no great concept to define the era (forget about going to Cuba), but still there is the sociopolitical undercurrents to these tunes, and tunes they are (with tunes being the operative word).

Ok I'm playing with chronology at bit there, but their greatest folly was not keeping their heads at this time at the turn of the 21st century. Even if they didn't want to release more MOR rock, they could have taken their time, let the myth grow, and if they wanted, release a low key album. The fact that they thought that releasing an album that said fuck-you-all to the industry and still expected to be applauded for it commercially and critically was their biggest folly.

What would that have meant for the following decade?

I'd say that could have released a straightforward rock album in 2001, did a Lifeblood-esque album in 2003...that's the thing. People always say that if they had of released LB in 2001 it would have been a great success. Possibly. I don't think that over 12/13 songs its a strong album but its an album to release when you're riding a wave of industry acclaim - not when you're trying desperately to dig yourself out of a hole. They could have possible released a LBesque album in 2003 and then possibly pulled out the JFPL card in 2005.

[Bobafettish]

Originally Posted by proevpete

I think you're exactly right.



Even the idea of releasing a double album, even if it was to be the rock / MOR dichotomy, is further proof of their mis-calculation of their position within the music world at the time. TBH I'd say a double album wouldn't have worked and would have bombed much the way the SWSS / FTS double release blew up in their faces.



Let's say they released a straight up guitar album. 12 songs of verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, outro. No big TIMT production. No KYE anti-production. Essentially basic commercial 4 min rock songs. I don't want to say garage rock but remember 2001 was the year of The Strokes with The Libertines coming the year after. Nicky has spoken of James phoning him up after doing an acoustic version of LBN on Jools and being blown away by the Libertines on there. (Again with all these comments I'm not saying these bands were the best bands around at this time - I'm just talking in more abstract conceptual terms.) They could have had a place alongside these bands - their own space away from gritty indie garage rock - but still within the mainstream rock avenues.

Think of Forever Delayed (the single). A straightforward 4 min rock tune with a big hook in the chorus. But they went for TBTGOG - a tuneless dull 3 mins of 'look at our fancy suits that we can now afford' pretension. Imagine a rock album with songs in the vain of FD, Automatik Teknicolor, Pedestal, Door to the River etc, possibly alongside honest productions of songs like FTS, IA, LRS, OS, FOSWFMC, BE. Ok, no great concept to define the era (forget about going to Cuba), but still there is the sociopolitical undercurrents to these tunes, and tunes they are (with tunes being the operative word).

Ok I'm playing with chronology at bit there, but their greatest folly was not keeping their heads at this time at the turn of the 21st century. Even if they didn't want to release more MOR rock, they could have taken their time, let the myth grow, and if they wanted, release a low key album. The fact that they thought that releasing an album that said fuck-you-all to the industry and still expected to be applauded for it commercially and critically was their biggest folly.

What would that have meant for the following decade?

I'd say that could have released a straightforward rock album in 2001, did a Lifeblood-esque album in 2003...that's the thing. People always say that if they had of released LB in 2001 it would have been a great success. Possibly. I don't think that over 12/13 songs its a strong album but its an album to release when you're riding a wave of industry acclaim - not when you're trying desperately to dig yourself out of a hole. They could have possible released a LBesque album in 2003 and then possibly pulled out the JFPL card in 2005.

youre on fire tonight. All true. There is such a frustration with the KYE era. Retrospectively I love it because It's born out of confusion, disillusionment and searching for meaning. Its my 3rd favourite manics album though, just for It's eclectic nature, but this was a time they could've really focused and made something groundbreaking.

[tuckedaway]

Originally Posted by Son of Stopped

I know I of all people haven't got the right to see this as a folly, but it amazes me that for all the Manics success, from non-fans a lot of them still mention as offensive Nicky's Stipe comment. After all this time... I know!
I should of voted for my folly out of that list and just mentioned people still got cold over the Stipe comment. No amount of "What he really meant" satisfies them.

This was going to be my pick too, just because it's such an immediate turn-off. And while some of these other mis-steps can be partially attributed to their label (single choices, overpriced box sets, whatever) this one was totally on Nicky.

Of course I've forgiven it, but I can understand why a lot of people wouldn't, especially if it's the first impression they got of the band.

[Takk]

Originally Posted by framedadolescence

After the commercial Gold Against The Soul they made The Holy Bible

After TIMT they made Know Your Enemy

After Send Away The Tigers they made Journal For Plague Lovers

They've always been at odds with themselves over wether they want to be commercial or not. KYE isn't a black sheep as regards that.

It is, none of those were designed to put people off.

[Takk]

I think KYE would have been much better received if they mixed it up some, did some proper production, made it sound more like their anthemic stuff - ditch the songs with embarrassing lyrics or wire vocals - come on....send them to bsides. Wattesville blues and miss europa are kinda plain embarrassing for album tracks at that stage in their career.

They made so much good music in terms of tbtgog bsides and satt bsides - albums in either of those directions would have been amazing.

Also, I worry that their next album will be a kye style mess in response to pfaym.

[riot_star]

Originally Posted by Takk

Also, I worry that their next album will be a kye style mess in response to pfaym.

With a few years off though I'm hoping it will be carefully thought out and they'll try and find something new. If they weren't going to take a break I would expect something like KYE though.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm still saying that we should organise it so that when they play Nixon and Empty Souls in the O2 gig (and TBTGOG too), everyone should just burst into raucous, joyous applause. That'll show them.

That would be amazing.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by hummingbird

someone's voted lifeblood... WHO DID THAT??

hopefully someone who genuinely feels that, for them, it was the worst thing the Manics did. sorry that they didn't get out of it what many of us did, but there you go, they must get the same vibe off other stuff otherwise they wouldn't be here.

if someone did it "just to pull the rug" as it were, they wasted their time a bit, i am very good at falling over here and beyond all by myself!

[powernoize]

it wasn't me who placed the vote lol, but i must admit that it's my least favorite of their albums, although i like some of the experimentation on the cd. however, it did lack a bit of that edge for me and kind of drags a bit, but i have found myself giving it more listens as time goes on so maybe it'll grow on me even more. i actually voted, no singles from Journal For Plague Lovers as a folly.