Album 15

[Tim]

I'm trying, i really am, but after getting the double cd book format thing and listening to it several times i'm struggling to connect with most of it. Highlights for me are critical thinking, hiding in plain sight, out of time revival and onemanmilitia. The three nicky sung tracks still showing the potential this album had being squandered, and out of time revival is great because it has a real drive and energy to it that's so lacking elsewhere. Dear stephen is still one of the most cringeworthy songs i have ever heard from them, and i've heard hazelton avenue.

[everlasting]

Why are so many people saying they hate Dear Stephen? Just what is wrong with it exactly? I don't get it. It's an okay song, I find myself humming along when it plays. Overall as an album, yeah it's not their best, I'd even put it in the lower regions, but it has nice enough songs and I'm glad we have it.

[IntlDebris]

Originally Posted by everlasting

Why are so many people saying they hate Dear Stephen? Just what is wrong with it exactly?

Probably because they hate it.

It's the most saccharine song on the album, musically, the lyrics are awkward and the quoting of Morrissey words is clumsy.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by everlasting

Why are so many people saying they hate Dear Stephen? Just what is wrong with it exactly?

My own thoughts:

Musically I find it very middle of the road and a bit cheesy. The predictable guitar fills, the unmemorable vocal lines, the stops and starts, it's Manics-on-autopilot. Not their worst moment and not even my least favourite on CT, but certainly watered down background toss.

Lyrically, as someone who dislikes Morrissey, it's just embarrassing. I've never liked the man, his voice, his lyrics, his whole contrived 'sensitive intellectual misfit' act, his sanctimonious and unprofessional stage antics, so I find the yearning for that version of the man that Nicky and his generation idolised completely eyeroll inducing.

Maybe there's a lesson in there about making fandom too much of an identity, I certainly spent too much time in my own past putting the Manics up on a pedestal.

[UEF]

Someone on one of the Smiths forums said "it doesn't take guts to be kind, it's the most socially acceptable position" which I think forms part of what people don't like about it.

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by everlasting

Why are so many people saying they hate Dear Stephen? Just what is wrong with it exactly? I don't get it. It's an okay song, I find myself humming along when it plays. Overall as an album, yeah it's not their best, I'd even put it in the lower regions, but it has nice enough songs and I'm glad we have it.

It's not my favourite track though I like that song and I get why Nicky included it and I don't think he cares if its not liked which is great. He was obviously a Morrissey fan and says he was his 'illicit drug' which is kind of funny. I like how he has dramatised the lyrics that way, and I like the guitars. Though I'm still enjoying the album and listening to it in sunny spring weather.

[Europa Gluten Free]

It's actually quite subtle but clever in the verse chord sequence and is not predictable at all. The 4th chord should be a D and it goes to the F9 and riffs from there and lifts the verse. Quite nice actually. Don't mind this song. I enjoy the shift in the chord sequence during the music break in the middle as well. Overall doesn't offend.

[Routine Builder]

I think it's fine, definitely has ear wormed into me more than I'd have liked. Also the lyric as presented is quite different to the way Nicky describes it. In interviews he's much more vocal about the tangibility of the signed postcard his mother got the band to sign rather than the whole what Morrissey has become angle.

I'm not sure what people want from the lyric though, not sure if the man who wished that Michael Stipe died from AIDS is best placed to bring Morrissey back in from the cold.

[Marconi Delorian]

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free

It's actually quite subtle but clever in the verse chord sequence and is not predictable at all. The 4th chord should be a D and it goes to the F9 and riffs from there and lifts the verse. Quite nice actually. Don't mind this song. I enjoy the shift in the chord sequence during the music break in the middle as well. Overall doesn't offend.

You mean the bit where they segue in to Words by The Bee Gees?

[savemejebus]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

I'm not sure what people want from the lyric though, not sure if the man who wished that Michael Stipe died from AIDS is best placed to bring Morrissey back in from the cold.

This is spot on. It's bad enough that the music is twee crap that sounds like it was put together for a daytime soap theme tune and with some melody robbed from the Bee Gees but all the shite about bad habits, dark secrets, ilicit drugs coming on an album where the first song/Title Track bemoans the culture that tries to deny any separation of art from artist.

It's pathetic especially coming from someone who has said shite that would have him cancelled today and whose icon for critical thinking only hasn't been cancelled because he disappeared.

[Porco]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

I'm not sure what people want from the lyric though, not sure if the man who wished that Michael Stipe died from AIDS is best placed to bring Morrissey back in from the cold.

I would contend maybe it makes him better placed. Look at the line in the demo that didn’t make the final lyric: “pride is best swallowed I know for sure / I’ve walked down the road of insane thoughts”

To “believe in repentance and forgiveness” makes total sense when you admit none of us are perfect, and there are usually reasons for saying crazy stuff. The difference here being Nicky has expressed regret for saying the Stipe comment, and Stipe didn’t seem to hold a grudge. See also JDB interviewing Paul McCartney. It’s almost like they’re all grown-ups who understand everyone says and does stupid stuff, it’s often fans who hold onto those incidences more than the individuals directed involved or referenced.

Personally I love the song, I think it’s great, but I can also kind of see why many will/do find it cheesy/cringe/bad. *shrug*.

[Routine Builder]

(I start to type and Morrissey's voice wafts in over the radio)

That's fair Porco, the point I was trying to make, poorly, is that people here seem to be holding Morrissey to a different to Nicky when what he said was arguably worse. Not particularly upset by any of it as it doesn't particularly achieve anything.

[Tim]

The problem i have with the song is much the same as why others hate it - the saccharine lyrics and the music lacking much of any interest which plagues most of the album. But people seem to like the album on the whole and if that means they continue making music then great, i'll wait for the next one which hopefully excites me more. I'd be far more forgiving of this song if it was about anyone other than fucking morrissey of all people, a subject that does not deserve an entire song. I know it's written from nicky's perspective but, as someone else pointed to, it seems to contradict the ethos of the title track and one cannot seek forgiveness for fascist sympathisers.

[Son of Stopped]

Dear Stephen blended into the album but if it came up next on a YouTube playlist I'd go to the one after.
I think there's great musicianship on this album. Up their with their career bests. I'm at least dreading a return/reaction to slower songs with full on orchestration.
At the time The Everlasting worked as an album opener. But it's probably been as skipped as many times as Dear Stephen might be!
When will we get the critical mass of James, Sean and Nicky openly writing the words and music?

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free

It's actually quite subtle but clever in the verse chord sequence and is not predictable at all. The 4th chord should be a D and it goes to the F9 and riffs from there and lifts the verse. Quite nice actually. Don't mind this song. I enjoy the shift in the chord sequence during the music break in the middle as well. Overall doesn't offend.

I think the lyrics are also like that. I'm glad it's part of the album.