Quality of b-sides

[andy]

From GT up to and including EMG the manics b sides have been as good as album tracks and singles.

If we ignore the live versions and covers etc in the time span above, the bsides are all album quality. However from TIMTTMY they have gone downhill to the point where they are throw away curios but nothing more.

I know people love the lifeblood era bsides but I just can't get excited about them. With the single format pretty much dead and people just downloading a 79p track rather than purchasing a physical single I think the golden era of bsides is dead. With the quality of the GT through to EMG that's a real shame

[Porco]

"Yeah, well, you know that's just like, er, your opinion man."

[AK47]

Originally Posted by andy

From GT up to and including EMG the manics b sides have been as good as album tracks and singles.

If we ignore the live versions and covers etc in the time span above, the bsides are all album quality. However from TIMTTMY they have gone downhill to the point where they are throw away curios but nothing more.

I know people love the lifeblood era bsides but I just can't get excited about them. With the single format pretty much dead and people just downloading a 79p track rather than purchasing a physical single I think the golden era of bsides is dead. With the quality of the GT through to EMG that's a real shame

I think TIMTTMY and KYE b-sides were pretty great personally. I didn't think the LB b-sides were that great and SATT b-sides had a few masterstrokes such as "Welcome To The Deadzone". SATT had that issue of some b-sides being just James and an acoustic which I found boring but the JFPL era had a few cool little curios. Postcards era had some cool b-sides also.

They are definately a great B-side band but I do sometimes believe they need to have a better handle on quality control.

[franny]

Should this not be in the Controversial Opinions thread?

[Dancing Kirby]

What do you expect when the a-sides include This is the Day?


Example of superior b-side no.1: http://youtu.be/tDYuOjtthAU

[Europa Gluten Free]

Originally Posted by andy

From GT up to and including EMG the manics b sides have been as good as album tracks and singles.

If we ignore the live versions and covers etc in the time span above, the bsides are all album quality. However from TIMTTMY they have gone downhill to the point where they are throw away curios but nothing more.

I know people love the lifeblood era bsides but I just can't get excited about them. With the single format pretty much dead and people just downloading a 79p track rather than purchasing a physical single I think the golden era of bsides is dead. With the quality of the GT through to EMG that's a real shame

TIMT and KYE era b-sides are by far and away the best.

GT era b-sides are demo-lite badly recorded 6th form effort pish.

GATS era b-sides are largely poor from a woeful period with the obvious exceptions of Donkeys and Comfort Comes..

THB era b-sides are also pretty cack.

EMG era b-sides are clearly b-sides and none of them (bar maybe Mr C) could have been on the album.

The difference with TIMT and KYE era b-sides is that they were left off the albums for artistic reasons as they didn't fit into the theme or structure of either of those eras. PTH, SS, VB, even BHFTY are a million miles better songs than INW, BAG, BN, or even SYMM. Those overly produced, too long, and indulgent tracks are clearly on the album cos they fit in with the album being a collection of songs that explore Wire's guilt and self-loathing at this point.

The same argument can be made for KYE era with JAK, P, BOTBN, GD, and DTTR much better than 75% of the tracks on the album.

In fact after writing this I'll say the OP is the most ridiculous thing I've read in here in a long time.

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by AK47

I think TIMTTMY and KYE b-sides were pretty great personally. I didn't think the LB b-sides were that great and SATT b-sides had a few masterstrokes such as "Welcome To The Deadzone". SATT had that issue of some b-sides being just James and an acoustic which I found boring but the JFPL era had a few cool little curios. Postcards era had some cool b-sides also.

They are definately a great B-side band but I do sometimes believe they need to have a better handle on quality control.

JFPL era? b-sides?

[Nature's Discontent]

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free

TIMT and KYE era b-sides are by far and away the best.

GT era b-sides are demo-lite badly recorded 6th form effort pish.

GATS era b-sides are largely poor from a woeful period with the obvious exceptions of Donkeys and Comfort Comes..

THB era b-sides are also pretty cack.

EMG era b-sides are clearly b-sides and none of them (bar maybe Mr C) could have been on the album.

The difference with TIMT and KYE era b-sides is that they were left off the albums for artistic reasons as they didn't fit into the theme or structure of either of those eras. PTH, SS, VB, even BHFTY are a million miles better songs than INW, BAG, BN, or even SYMM. Those overly produced, too long, and indulgent tracks are clearly on the album cos they fit in with the album being a collection of songs that explore Wire's guilt and self-loathing at this point.

The same argument can be made for KYE era with JAK, P, BOTBN, GD, and DTTR much better than 75% of the tracks on the album.

In fact after writing this I'll say the OP is the most ridiculous thing I've read in here in a long time.

*Rubs eyes* Acronyms. Too...many...acronyms.

Totally disagree about the GATS b-sides, which is pretty much my fave era for them. Hibernation is probably in my top 10 Manics songs.

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by Nature's Discontent

Hibernation is probably in my top 10 Manics songs.

Yes, it's GREAT.

this is how I see it and like it:

GT era - pretty mixed, average or slightly less than average overall
GATS era - superb! Donkeys, Comformt Comes, Hibernation - three of their say 20 best songs, what do you want more?
HB - there's nothing
EMG - great, lot of songs which are better than Removables and Further Away, for example Sepia
TIMTTMY - very good, huge number of songs better than Everlasting, You Stole the Sun, Tsunami, I'm not Working, BlackDog, Be NAtural, for example Valley Boy or Socialist Serenade (despit the lyric) (I doubt someone will agree here )
KEY - up and down, some really great stuff (Just a Kid, Locust Valley), some really bad (Novotel)
Lifeblood - average or slightly less than average.
SATT - average, some very good (Anorexic Rodin), some very bad (Nicky)
JFPL - there's nothing
Shitcards - surprisingly not bad, but average. The b-sides collection is superior to the album (Lost Voices) !!!!!
Rewind the Shitology - not enough songs to judge

[The Gutless Wonder]

I think the Manics have always consistently produced great b-sides. Some proper gems throughout their career!

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

I think the Manics have always consistently produced great b-sides. Some proper gems throughout their career!

very well said!

[andy]

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free

TIMT and KYE era b-sides are by far and away the best.

GT era b-sides are demo-lite badly recorded 6th form effort pish.

GATS era b-sides are largely poor from a woeful period with the obvious exceptions of Donkeys and Comfort Comes..

THB era b-sides are also pretty cack.

EMG era b-sides are clearly b-sides and none of them (bar maybe Mr C) could have been on the album.

The difference with TIMT and KYE era b-sides is that they were left off the albums for artistic reasons as they didn't fit into the theme or structure of either of those eras. PTH, SS, VB, even BHFTY are a million miles better songs than INW, BAG, BN, or even SYMM. Those overly produced, too long, and indulgent tracks are clearly on the album cos they fit in with the album being a collection of songs that explore Wire's guilt and self-loathing at this point.

The same argument can be made for KYE era with JAK, P, BOTBN, GD, and DTTR much better than 75% of the tracks on the album.

In fact after writing this I'll say the OP is the most ridiculous thing I've read in here in a long time.

if we break it down era by era (like I say excluding live and covers - and also previous singles like motown junk and suicide alley which were also later used as b-sides)

vision of dead desire
we her maj.
sorrow 16
aint going down
bored out of my mind
dead yankee drawl
never want again

of those, Dead Yankee is brilliant with great lyrics, sorrow 16 the first song I believe richey played with the band and also a live fave even through to the bible days, aint goin down also had some great lyrics - which expressed another side of their rage and polemic to the vitriol which was in the early interviews. Not a bad tune amongst them.

Hibernation
starlover
patrick bateman
us against you
donkeys
comfort comes
are mothers saints

Again some great lyrics in there, comfort comes hinted at the more angular work which graced the bible, are mothers saints and hibernation are beautiful. Starlover is lyrically juvenile but the riff, while cliched, is still a prime slice of les paul riff-a-rama. Patrick is also a quality tune, however I think partially beacuse of the lyrics and the fact nicky once said he wanted it on the album and as the first single, has a bit of folk lore attached to it and has made it something bigger than it is. So while it is hyped a lot, it is still a quality tune

Sculpture of man
too cold here
Love Torn Us Under

sculpture has great lyrics and I love the tempo change, when I first listened to it my head was blown off as it wasnt expected when it kicks in.

Too cold here is one of my fave manics lyrics "Everyone asks what's wrong, but what's right? And a cute lie makes everything uptight. To kill your dream before it's considered. To live in silence, airless closet, no vision." and "Prison it's only four walls but sometimes the mind is the smallest prison of all" are brilliant and james has ace phrasing on them, epecially the second example. One of those hair raising moments.

Mr carbohydrate
dead passive
dead trees...
black garden
hanging on
No-One Knows
Horses Under Starlight
Sepia
First Republic

maybe it was because it was my first manics single, but the trio on EMG (black garden, hanging on and No-one...) are my fave collection of bsides on one single, all 3 are brilliant. They are not the most artistically clever or progressive but all 3 are quality balls out rock tracks with good lyrics. Mr C is a highlight, sepia very poignant, first republic is lyrically cliched but still entertaining.



In conclusion, I dont think there is a bad one in the bunch

[tzb]

Personally I find the GT, GATS and THB b-sides almost universally shit.

Forever Delayed had the best b-sides of any era and I'm not the only person who thinks so. But since EMG there's at least one b-side better than a single released for the album in question (except, obviously, JFPL).

[Dac X Lee]

Btw, isn't Forever Delayed a b-side itself? I know, I know, it's the name of the compilation too, of course, but just saying... Forever Delayed is a cute song too.

Honestly I lost the track of which b-side is from which era a long time ago.
Generally there's a whole lot of b-sides from various eras that I find very addictive and my favourites depend on my mood, but a taste of my personal b-sides choices can be seen in the topic about Manics' sports playlists, which includes a lot of their lively and energically sounding punkish songs. Those were chosen not only because it was supposed to be a playlist for a sports' ride on my bicycle, but also because these are amongst my favourites.

But, ehm, what I really wanted to say here is that "quality" thing, I mean, at first I really thought it was about the recording quality, like, you know, technicalities. Like, some songs are louder, some are quite, some are clean, some got background noise, some are lo-fi, some are hi-fi etc. But as I read the first post and all those that follow, I'm quite confused because it's hard to stay objective, unless you are a professional musical critique or DJ who has literally heard it all. All kinds of songs, be it top hits, be it obscure underground artists that nobody has ever heard of, from all the decades of the 20th and 21st century, yet very familiar with classic music too, the one you learn at school, and of all genres and mixtures and experimentations, a musical explorer.

So, basically, it's okay to judge by personal taste, but if that's so, talking about "quality" is a little too much...

[grimlock]

Every band I've listened to have b-sides that are hit-or-miss and the Manics are no exception.